Photonic Therapy


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Photonic Therapy

Postby willru602 » Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:43 am

Now that I've worn Ed out with my technical ignorance, I was wondering if any of you have ever heard of or had experience with Photonic Therapy or otherwise known as 'red light' therapy.

I've done quite a bit of reading on it and that is what I needed the manual for that Ed helped me to get. Anyhow, one of the interesting things I read is that the red light helps or causes the body to release acetycholine, which is what the person with PSP needs..according to other articles I've read. Of course, the person who referred me to the light said it did not change anything with his wife but the light is useful for many, many health problems.

If I understand correctly, it was developed for use in treating animals and is now being used for humans. Sort of a 'natural' cure or preventive...ie .. blood pressure, cholesterol, headaches, sciatica, diabetes, many, many more..

I sure would like to know if anyone here has any experience or knowledge regarding the red light and what you think. I am seriously thinking of buying one unless convinced otherwise.

Ru
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Postby gatorchin3 » Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:17 am

Ru,
Would you please provide us with more specific information beyond just Photonic Therapy and red light. Is there a manufacturer's name, product model number, web site?

My first reaction is that this could be something that is being offered to people who are desperate for help and are willing to buy anything that might offer them some hope.

I would suggest that you take as much information as you have and go to the PubMed site and search the "real" medical journals for scientific evidence that this product has been found to be effective. I hope that it has.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?DB=pubmed

Please give us more information.
Thanks,
Jackie
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Postby gatorchin3 » Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:10 am

Ru,
You got my curiosity up, so I did some reading at PubMed myself. What I found in the time that has elapsed since I read your post is that the helium-neon diode lasers, which produce light in the red region (600-700nm) of the electromagnetic spectrum, have been found to be useful for treating open wounds in the first few days of healing. I have not found anything that would indicate to me that one would find any benefit in aiming one at a pwpsp's brain stem in an attempt to produce acetylcholine.

The abstract that I have copied below sums up the problem pretty well. This sentence in particular points to the source of difficulty for the pwpsp: "Normal cholinergic transmission <u>requires the presence of intact cholinergic neurons</u> capable of releasing sufficient acetylcholine"...

So, there would be two difficulties, as least as I see it, to the laser approach in stimulating the release of acetylcholine. First, you would not be able to penetrate to the depth needed to reach the cells. Second, the neurons that release acetylcholine are not functional.

Personally, I would save my money. It's 2AM so I haven't read anything about the Photonic Therapy device offered online by the vet, but I am interested in knowing if it is used for open wounds, or if he is advertising it for use in curing internal problems.

I hope more opinions will be offered here.
Jackie

1: Brain. 2005 Feb;128(Pt 2):239-49. Epub 2005 Jan 13. Links
Cholinergic systems in progressive supranuclear palsy.Warren NM, Piggott MA, Perry EK, Burn DJ.
Institute for Ageing and Health, University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK. n.m.warren@ncl.ac.uk

Progressive supranuclear palsy (PSP) is a progressive neurodegenerative disease characterized by akinetic-rigid features, falls, a supranuclear gaze palsy and subcortical dementia. Pathologically, there is abnormal accumulation of tau protein. Cholinergic deficits are thought to underlie the postural instability and cognitive impairment of PSP, but trials of cholinergic agonists and cholinesterase inhibitors have failed to show improvement in motor function, quality of life and cognitive impairment. The five cortico-basal ganglia loops, linking functionally related areas of the brain, are damaged in PSP, leading to specific clinical deficits. Cholinergic dysfunction is related to loss of cholinergic interneurons in the striatum, compounded by reduced inputs into the circuits from other cholinergic nuclei, such as the pedunculopontine nucleus and nucleus basalis of Meynert. Normal cholinergic transmission requires the presence of intact cholinergic neurons capable of releasing sufficient acetylcholine, and functional muscarinic and nicotinic receptors. Whilst there is evidence from autopsy and in vivo studies of loss of cholinergic neurons in PSP, the receptor status is unknown. This may be critical to understanding the basis for the poor therapeutic response to cholinomimetics. Symptomatic treatment using cholinergic drugs may thus be improved by more specific targeting of cholinergic receptors or nuclei. There is also evidence that cholinergic agents may have disease-modifying effects. This article reviews the key clinical features of PSP, along with normal basal ganglia anatomy and cholinergic transmission. Cholinergic deficits based on clinical and neurochemical parameters are then discussed, before concluding with suggested future directions for cholinergic treatments.

PMID: 15649952 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Related LinksLoss of thalamic intralaminar nuclei in progressive supranuclear palsy and Parkinson's disease: clinical and therapeutic implications. [Brain. 2000] PMID: 10869053 The basal ganglia cholinergic neurochemistry of progressive supranuclear palsy and other neurodegenerative diseases. [J Neurol Neurosurg Psychiatry. 2006] PMID: 17178818 Cholinergic and peptidergic systems in PSP. [J Neural Transm Suppl. 1994] PMID: 7964688 Cholinergic neuronal loss in the basal forebrain and mesopontine tegmentum of progressive supranuclear palsy and corticobasal degeneration. [Acta Neuropathol (Berl). 2003] PMID: 12536222 Progressive supranuclear palsy: clinical features, pathophysiology and management. [Drugs Aging. 2001] PMID: 11888346 See all Related Articles...
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Postby willru602 » Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:50 am

Jackie, thank you for your response to my question re:red light therapy. The site that I've read is.. www.mclaurenusainc.com Brian McLauren may be the orginal manufacturer of the light? Not sure but the one I'm borrowing is a "copy-cat" and suppose to be an improvement over the McLauren?

I became interested in the light therapy not because of the possible affect it might have on PSP but for my own use with sciatica nerve problem. I watched a video (which is a part of the kit) where I read about the acetycholine and it was only a statement among others that popped out at me.

The friend who has loaned me his light to try, said that it did not help his wife who had PSP, which is not suprising. His daughter had learned that the device had helped someone with PD and bought one for her Mother, who has sinced passed away.

I have spoken to the man who is selling/manufacturing this particular light and he reminded me of what he said on the video..that diagnosis is important as to how effective the light can be. For instance, my sciatica has not responded to the treatments suggested on the tape, which could indicate that I have a herniated disk in my lower back...My doctor had already suggested this to me last year when I got a steroid shot for the problem...which did not help but actually made worse and created other problems.

The red light is not laser because laser would burn the nerves inside and prove to be dangerous, possibly fatal..I suppose. As far as PSP is concerned, I am reasonably sure that it would be of no benefit...but thought that someone here might have had experience with the light in helping problems like, BP, cholesterol, headaches, or something of that nature. There is a long long list of things it suggests that it might help..and my friend says that he uses the light for his knee problem and has used it to decrease ringing in the ears..both effective...??? The man I talked to used it for his headaches but it was NOT affective because of his diagnosis and I can't remember what he said that was.

Supposedly the light should be used 2 to 3 times weekly to begin with and then a couple of times per month to maintain a healthy body. There are a number of key pressure points on the body suggested to maintain and then other places to treat certain conditions. Some of these include the key points.

That is about all I can say on the product at this time...haven't had time to actually use it on anything but my sciatica and so far it hasn't been of any help.

Oh..one of the things that was of interest on the tape is that if one has a cold sore, you place the light on the sore and it kills the bacteria and heals the sore. Another interesting point made was, if one feels a cold coming on..then you sit down for about 15 minutes and place the light on the carotoid artery on each side of the neck and it will kill bacteria in the blood keeping the cold/flu from invading the body.

Now whether or not this works, I don't know and I know people are out there to sell their products regardless...only reason I took interest is because of a trusting friendship but my friend isn't pushing the product...just loaning to me to see what I think..and I am not sure what I think. LOL

Anyhow, thank you for your response and I will check out the light on Pubmed asap and that may help me to decide whether or not to spend $200 + S/H...

Ru
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Postby gatorchin3 » Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:55 pm

Hi Ru
Lasers can be all strengths, like the little "pointer" lasers of red light that you may have seen used at a talk or seminar to highlight a point on a slide as the speaker speaks. You might have seen them used on America's Funniest Video's to drive poor cats and dogs berserk as they chase the light around. The light emitted is in the infrared, so it has a heating effect, like the IR "flood" light bulbs you can buy to heat kittens or puppies.

Using the device you currently have to cure a cold sore seems to me to be the only reasonable use of those you mentioned. A use for diabetics would again be for the treatment of open wounds. For dental problems like gengivitis, one would again be treating open wounds where these devices have been found to be effective (at least the reputable devices). The literature I read at PubMed indicated that a device such as this should be available for around $50.00. The device can be a helium-neon light emitting diode as well.

I sincerely believe that you are not going to cure the flu or a cold by pointing this instrument at the carotid artery. You would have to heat the bacteria to the point that you killed them, and that would not be good for you! Physical therapists use IR instruments to apply "deep heat" to sore muscles, but you can feel the heat if I am remembering correctly. Do you feel heat when you try to use this instrument on your sciatic nerve?

I'm going to "your" website now, but so far I'm still hoping you save your money!
Jackie
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Postby gatorchin3 » Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:57 am

http://www.revitavet.com

Ru,
The above website seems to be a little more informative than the McLaren site.

Basically, you are aiming the light waves at acupuncture trigger points, which is supposed to stimulate the skin nerves, which will then have a domino effect on other nerves and eventually affect the treatment target. Not being a big fan of accupuncture, I (personally) wouldn't put a lot of faith in this method either.

Here's another abstract for you from PubMed. Apparently this technology is being applied in other countries on humans, but is banned in the US by the FDA.

"1: Dermatol Surg. 2005 Mar;31(3):334-40. Links
Low-level laser therapy for wound healing: mechanism and efficacy.Posten W, Wrone DA, Dover JS, Arndt KA, Silapunt S, Alam M.
Department of Dermatology, Feinberg School of Medicine, Northwestern University, Chicago, Illinois 60611, USA.

BACKGROUND: Given the recent interest in light-emitting diode (LED) photomodulation and minimally invasive nonablative laser therapies, it is timely to investigate reports that low-level laser therapy (LLLT) may have utility in wound healing. OBJECTIVES: To critically evaluate reported in vitro models and in vivo animal and human studies and to assess the qualitative and quantitative sufficiency of evidence for the efficacy of LLLT in promoting wound healing. METHOD: Literature review, 1965 to 2003. RESULTS: In examining the effects of LLLT on cell cultures in vitro, some articles report an increase in cell proliferation and collagen production using specific and somewhat arbitrary laser settings with the helium neon (HeNe) and gallium arsenide lasers, but none of the available studies address the mechanism, whether photothermal, photochemical, or photomechanical, whereby LLLT may be exerting its effect. Some studies, especially those using HeNe lasers, report improvements in surgical wound healing in a rodent model; however, these results have not been duplicated in animals such as pigs, which have skin that more closely resembles that of humans. In humans, beneficial effects on superficial wound healing found in small case series have not been replicated in larger studies. CONCLUSION: To better understand the utility of LLLT in cutaneous wound healing, good clinical studies that correlate cellular effects and biologic processes are needed. Future studies should be well-controlled investigations with rational selection of lasers and treatment parameters. In the absence of such studies, the literature does not appear to support widespread use of LLLT in wound healing at this time. Although applications of high-energy (10-100 W) lasers are well established with significant supportive literature and widespread use, conflicting studies in the literature have limited low-level laser therapy (LLLT) use in the United States to investigational use only. Yet LLLT is used clinically in many other areas, including Canada, Europe, and Asia, for the treatment of various neurologic, chiropractic, dental, and dermatologic disorders. To understand this discrepancy, it is useful to review the studies on LLLT that have, to date, precluded Food and Drug Administration approval of many such technologies in the United States. The fundamental question is whether there is sufficient evidence to support the use of LLLT."

Jackie
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Postby willru602 » Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:22 am

Jackie, thank you for doing that bit of research. I think I'm going to ban the idea of purchasing the light and largely based on an experience that I had this week with my eyes and blood pressure. I'm sure there is no connection but I don't feel comfortable having to explain the red light to a doctor..ha I have too many health issues going on in our family to do any real study for myself, so what you have contributed has been influential..and I thank you.
Ru
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Postby gatorchin3 » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:34 am

Hi Ru,
You are very welcome. I hope I didn't go over-board with the scientific articles on light and acetylcholine. I wish I had a better understanding of all this myself, but we don't have the time to become physicists and doctors along with all the trials of caring for our pwpsp and ourselves.

Even with the promising theories about CoQ10, I know there is a large probability that it is not going to be effective in the effort to slow down the progress of PSP. I give it to my mom because her neuro said to. The fact that she thinks it may work is enough optimism for me to retain hope that it will, and to spend the money necessary to keep my mom on it.

If your internist, neuro or MDS ever tells you to buy a red light and shine it at acupuncture points, let us know!

I don't know if this new med would work for your sciatica or not, but if it is due to a pinched nerve, you might want to ask for a sample of Lyrica. It certainly has helped the nerve pain I have in my feet, and has also stopped my restless leg syndrome.
Jackie
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